; Phantoms and Monsters: Pulse of the Paranormal

Tuesday, February 16, 2021

Lost Interview with Ufology Pioneer Riley Crabb Comes to Light - Part I

Lost Interview with Ufology Pioneer Riley Crabb Comes to Light - Part I

By Raymond A. Keller, PhD, a.k.a. “Cosmic Ray,” the author of the international awards-winning Venus Rising Series, published by Headline Books and available on Amazon.com, while supplies last.

Venus Rising: A Concise History of the Second Planet

Final Countdown: Rockets to Venus

Cosmic Ray's Excellent Venus Adventure

The Vast Venus Conspiracy

Lady Columba Venus Revelations

In the early days of television in the Hawaiian Islands, one of the more popular programs was Betty’s Guest Book, aired on the CBS Honolulu affiliate KGMB-TV from 1 to 1:30 p.m. every Thursday. To those senior citizens that can still remember the program, there was an episode that dealt with the most controversial subject of flying saucers that stood out above all the rest.  Airing on 27 January 1955, this is perhaps one of the more intriguing interviews ever conducted regarding the UFO phenomenon, insofar as it contains many revelations about the advanced civilizations that exist on other bodies in our own solar system. The guest was Riley Hansard Crabb (2 April 1912-20 January 1994), a prominent researcher of esoterica and the borderland sciences.  The following, taken from Dr. Raymond A. Keller’s Venus Files, is an exact transcript of that program from the audio tape recording made at home off of the television set by Riley’s then second wife, Judy Crabb:

Riley Crabb (1912-1994), pioneer ufologist and paranormal investigator.

Betty Smyser:  We have a guest who is an expert on a very unusual subject, flying saucers.  His name is Riley Crabb.  This is so nice of you to come down and tell us about a subject which is so fascinating.  But is it believable?

Riley Crabb:  Yes.  That’s what we will find out during your show.

Betty:  I read in the paper the other day that you gave a talk at the YMCA.  What did you talk about?

Riley:  The title of last Tuesday evening’s talk, Betty, was, “Flying Saucers and Why Some Men Are Taken for a Ride.”  It was given at a public meeting of the Theosophical Society, of which I am lodge president.

Betty:  First, Riley, how did you become interested in interplanetary travel?

Riley:  One of the radio engineers here in Honolulu, back in 1950, gave me a copy of True magazine, which had one of their first articles on the subject.  Prior to that, I dismissed them as hallucinations.  But the factual material in the article startled me.  Shortly after that, I had a chance to join the Borderland Sciences Research Associates, a group with headquarters in San Diego.  We compile material of this kind and analyze it to see what truth is in it.

Betty:  And you have been pursuing your studies ever since?

Riley:  Yes, Betty, I’m afraid it has become an avocation now.  

Betty:  What, just exactly, is a flying saucer supposed to be?

Riley:  Apparently, it is a spaceship for traveling between planets.

Betty:  Just as simple as that?

Riley:  Just as simple as that, Betty.  I have two books here, just recently received from the British Book Centre in New York.  One is Space, Gravity and the Flying Saucer by Leonard Cramp.  This man is a member of the British Interplanetary Society and he discusses various scientific aspects of lift, how these saucers get their propulsion.  The other volume- and we will review it on your program today- is the Flying Saucer from Mars by an Englishman named Cedric Allingham.

Betty (reaching for the book):  It says here, “An eyewitness account of a landing of a Martian!”

Riley:  That’s right.

Betty:  Now this is going to take a lot of convincing- a flying saucer from Mars.  Now, Mr. Riley Crabb, suppose I let you go right ahead and when I am skeptical or have a question to ask, I’ll interrupt you.  How about that?

Riley:  Fine; and think of the woman’s angle, Betty.  The thing is that Allingham was well equipped to have such a thing happen to him.  He was out on a lonely beach, a beach in Scotland named Lossiemouth, and he had with him the basic equipment:  a camera with film in it, a note or sketchbook and binoculars.  It was 18 February 1954, not quite a year ago.  It was about half an hour past noon.  Allingham was a professional bird watcher, an ornithologist, and also an amateur astronomer.  He was out actually looking for birds, so he was also used to looking up.


Birdwatchers are more likely to see and even photograph a flying saucer, insomuch as they are outside more often and usually packing photographic equipment to document their bird finds.

Betty:  You mean he wasn’t out looking for a flying saucer?

Riley:  No, but he believed in them and had since the stories first broke back in 1946, because of his astronomical background.  He feels that science has not disproved that life is possible on other planets; and when these spaceships began showing up, that was proof to him.  Well, anyhow, this particular day he was surprised to see this blob of light about 5,000 feet above him.  He put his binoculars to it and saw the round dome and three-ball landing gear underneath, the usual identifying marks of a scout saucer.  We might look at our first slide now, copied from the back of the book.  There is Allingham, beside his ten-inch reflecting telescope, one he has used for years in his astronomical work.  The next picture is a copy of the one he got that day at noon.

Amateur astronomer and English contactee Cedric Allingham with his ten-inch reflecting telescope.

Betty:  You mean that blob of light?

Riley:  Yes, that is typical of many pictures which have been taken by other people.  The main difference was that this one came on down and landed about 3:30 p.m. and he got a close look at it.  

Betty started laughing in disbelief.

Riley:  It’s true!

Betty:  All right.  All right!

Riley:  Allingham stayed in the area, hoping to see the saucer again; and about 3:30 or 3:40 p.m., he heard, rather than saw, this flying saucer coming in very low over the sea.

Betty:  What kind of sound did it make?

Riley:  A sort of swish, moving the air around it; and it landed there on the beach about 50 yards from him.  It was about 50 feet in diameter, 20 feet high; and he got one picture of it coming down.  Our next slide will show you that.

Betty:  Riley, are you sure that wasn’t taken on a movie set in Hollywood for one of those science fiction things?  

Riley:  It is true that this would be pretty easy to duplicate.  

Betty:  But you’ll take Mr. Allingham’s word that this is the saucer he saw, that he actually took a picture of it after it landed on that afternoon?

Riley:  Yes.

Betty:  OK.  And what happened after the saucer landed?

Riley:  A hatch opened and an individual climbed out, a spaceman, and stood there on the sand; and they stared at each other.

Betty:  You mean they didn’t immediately shake hands and say, “How are you, Joe?”

Riley:  No.  Allingham was so excited by that time that he forgot to get a good picture of the spaceman, front view.  It wasn’t until the interview was over and the man started back toward his saucer that Allingham upped his camera and got a picture.

Betty:  You mean that you have a picture of this man that got off the flying saucer?

Riley:  Yes, we will have that pretty soon, such as it is.  This next one is picture of the saucer on the ground, sitting on the beach.

Betty:  Look at those three portholes!  And that was the picture of the saucer after it landed?

From Cosmic Ray’s Venus Files:  The birdwatcher Allingham’s first photo of the landed saucer on the beach in Scotland.

Riley:  Yes, Betty, and there is the picture of the man.  We’re a little ahead of our story.

Betty:  Wait a minute, Riley; let’s clarify this.  That picture you see on your television screen now is a man from….?

Riley:  Mars.

Betty:  Mars?  A man got out of that flying saucer?

Riley:  That’s what Mr. Allingham claims.

Betty:  All right.

Riley:  I’m merely presenting his story, Betty.  Let me read Allingham’s description: “I had never seen a spaceman.  He presumably had seen other Earth men.  In all essentials, however, our appearance was similar.  My own height is 5’9 ½” and his was a little bit more, I should say about six feet.  By Earthly standards, I should say we were about the same age.  I am 32.  His hair, like mine, was brown and short.  But his skin was a peculiarly curious color, rather like a deep tan.  Even so, had he been dressed in Earthly clothes, I doubt if he would have any difficulty in passing as an Englishman.  The only real difference was that his forehead was higher than that of any man I know.  That’s all.”

From Cosmic Ray’s Venus Files:  Photo of Allingham’s “Favorite Martian.”

Betty:  It’s as simple as that.  I’m completely fascinated.

Riley:  Good.

Betty:  Now tell me, Riley, what was Mr. Allingham’s reaction?  Was he frightened?

Riley:  No, he wasn’t.  Allingham is a matter-of-fact, straight-forward Englishman, apparently.  If you read his book, you will find out that; and he was concerned to get information from the spaceman which would verify some of his astronomical theories about the inhabitation of the planets.  The first thing that occurred to Allingham was to try to find out where the man came from.  In asking questions of him, Allingham discovered that this being had a beautiful voice, sounding like water gurgling over rocks.  There was a musical quality to it, quite alien to anything he had heard.

Betty:  Not words?

Riley:  Not as we know them.  Therefore, Allingham took out his sketchpad, a handy thing to have if you are searching for flying saucers, and he drew in the Sun and then marked in the orbits of the planets.  Number one is Mercury.  The orbit of Venus is number two; and then he drew in the orbit of the Earth, number three.  (Crab was demonstrating this with a sketchpad and heavy black pencil for the TV audience, a “Venus” brand pencil at that!)  Allingham pointed to this, the Earth’s orbit, and the spaceman agreed that he knew he was on the planet occupying the third orbit in our solar system.  Then Allingham pointed to Venus, number two, and got a negative response.  The Englishman then drew the fourth orbit, Mars, and got an agreement on that.  That is how he established that the individual came from Mars.

Betty (laughs):  Well, I’m speechless, absolutely!  This is fantastic.  Then what happened?

Riley:  Then the spaceman tried to ask a question.  With gestures the stranger indicated he was concerned as to whether or not we were going to have another war.  Allingham could not give him any assurance that we wouldn’t.  Then the Englishman tried to discover if this Martian had had any contact with the planet Venus, because the spaceman George Adamski contacted in the California desert in 1952 indicated that he came from Venus.  Using the sketchpad again, Allingham showed an arc between Mars and Venus.  

Betty:  You mean showing that they traveled back and forth?

Riley:  Yes, between Mars and Venus, and the spaceman indicated an affirmative.  Then Allingham drew in the orbit of the Moon around our planet and finally got the spaceman to understand the question as to whether or not the Moon was being used as a space station; and the answer was again in the affirmative.

Betty:  And all of this communication with the man from Mars was done with a drawing tablet?

Riley:  And gestures.

Betty:  Tell me something else, Riley.  Did Allingham mention that the spaceman was afraid of him?  Was there no fear?

Riley:  No.  Allingham remembered those gestures of friendship more common to primitive people here on Earth, of offering a gift.  The only thing he had was his fountain pen.  He offered that to the spaceman and it was accepted, graciously, and put in his pocket.

Betty:  You mean they have pockets to their suits?

Riley:  Oh, yes.  Here’s a description of the suit:  It covered him completely from his neck to his feet.  Only his hands were free.  There were no definite shoes.  The feet were encased in the garment.  It reminded Allingham of chain mail, certainly insulating and flexible.

Betty:  It’s explained just like that in the book.  I told Riley Crabb that I was really going to put him on the spot.  I told him that I didn’t believe in flying saucers; that perhaps they were just blobs of light.  But you are convincing me, my friend.

Riley:  Betty, I’m only presenting such evidence as I have accumulated in four years.  I have volumes of it.  This is only the latest.  Speaking of evidence, I’d like to quote here from the book an interesting item which Allingham dug up.  One thing, by the way, which critics have said is that no reputable astronomer or scientist has come out publicly and said that he believes in them.  But going back into the past for astronomical sightings, Allingham quotes the French astronomer, Charles Messier, who on 17 June 1777 wrote in his diary: “They were large and swift and they were like ships yet like bells.”  It is clear that he examined these not only with the unaided eye but also with the telescope.

Betty:  And that was as far back as 1777?

Riley:  Yes, Betty.  Of course, a check of written history indicates that we have had sightings as far back as we have- written history!  Also, the bell-like shape Messier observed in 1777 indicates that there hasn’t been much change in the design in over 150 years.

Betty (laughs):  I was going to say, Riley, not much progress has been made, has it?  

Riley:  Or perhaps they’ve made all the progress in spaceships that is necessary….


Editor’s Note:  For the amazing conclusion of this long lost interview, be sure and stay tuned to this blog site for Part II, where the Cosmic Ray reveals more of what paranormal researcher and pioneer ufologist Riley Crabb had to say about the contact case of the Englishman Cedric Allingham, the California contactees George Adamski and Truman Bethurum, as well as Leonard Cramp’s exquisite theories of flying saucer propulsion.